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Mike Friedman

Something to keep in mind about PA, DA, TF, CF, and other metrics

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I get asked questions a lot about DA, PA, TF, CF, etc. I also see a lot of threads on forums around the internet discussing them.

 

Be careful how much you rely on these metrics for ANYTHING you are doing online. These metrics are commonly all over the place.

 

I can find example after example that makes little to sense in their rankings. There is no question that some are fairly spot on, but what is that saying about a blind squirrel....???

 

At absolute best, they should be used as a very inaccurate guide or filter. Probably even less so today than in the past. Remember that these metrics were largely designed to try to emulate the way that Google views a webpage. More or less, they are trying to offer an alternative to the PageRank metric. 

 

A few years ago, the companies behind these metrics had the ability to get a rough idea on how they were doing with this by comparing their metrics to PR when there were frequent PR updates. PR updates gave them a measuring stick, despite the fact that even when PR was publicly updated it still was often data that was a few months behind.

 

With the last PR update over two years behind us now and the chances of a public PR update ever happening again almost zero, it is likely that we will only see a wider and wider standard deviation between what these metrics are telling us and how Google actually feels about a webpage.

 

 

 

 

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SEMrush

Main problem I have with this is that my senior SEO colleague uses the metrics associated with Moz as a general guideline for everything, which makes it difficult to make him understand that sometimes, you can't rely on the DA/PA metrics when comparing two very similar sites with very dissimilar results in rankings.

The morale of the story is that even experienced people can get fooled by convenient measurement tools that kind of obstructs their normal inquisitiveness..

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It is crazy just how much many "professional" SEOs rely on these metrics. I would not say to just ignore them all the time, but even if they were accurate they are not updated in real time. Moz might take a few months to find new links. You might see a domain with a DA of 0, but next week it will be 30 once they push out an update. Despite that, people are using these metrics to determine things like if their links are good or not. I wonder how many good links have been removed or disavowed because they didn't have the proper metrics???  :huh:  :o  :huh:

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Guys what are you talking about? How are you saying not to take into consideration these metrics? What other metrics do we have then to evaluate the domains then? these are the only metrics that we have available, yes they were created to emulate the Page Rank and they are trying to have some type of relationshipt with the PR, but those are the best things we have.

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Guys what are you talking about? How are you saying not to take into consideration these metrics? What other metrics do we have then to evaluate the domains then? these are the only metrics that we have available, yes they were created to emulate the Page Rank and they are trying to have some type of relationshipt with the PR, but those are the best things we have.

 

When you say "evaluate the domains", I'm assuming you mean for purchase. If you mean something else, then I apologize.

 

For buying domains you don't need metrics to evaluate a domain. You can use them as a filter to weed out obvious bad ones, but that will not always be accurate. Like Mike teaches in his course, if you are buying domains based on metrics then you are probably buying a lot of bad domains.

 

I'm with Mike on this one. If you are using these metrics for any serious decisions, you are probably going to make just as many bad decisions as good decisions. 

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Guys what are you talking about? How are you saying not to take into consideration these metrics? What other metrics do we have then to evaluate the domains then? these are the only metrics that we have available, yes they were created to emulate the Page Rank and they are trying to have some type of relationshipt with the PR, but those are the best things we have.

 

I can't tell if you are being serious or sarcastic.

 

If you are being serious, go ahead and keep using these metrics. I think it is crazy and just a horrible idea, but go ahead and keep doing it. 

 

I have never said anyone has to follow everything I suggest.

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When you say "evaluate the domains", I'm assuming you mean for purchase. If you mean something else, then I apologize.

 

For buying domains you don't need metrics to evaluate a domain. You can use them as a filter to weed out obvious bad ones, but that will not always be accurate. Like Mike teaches in his course, if you are buying domains based on metrics then you are probably buying a lot of bad domains.

 

I'm with Mike on this one. If you are using these metrics for any serious decisions, you are probably going to make just as many bad decisions as good decisions. 

 

 

I can't tell if you are being serious or sarcastic.

 

If you are being serious, go ahead and keep using these metrics. I think it is crazy and just a horrible idea, but go ahead and keep doing it. 

 

I have never said anyone has to follow everything I suggest.

 

Yes I am being seriious and yes I use them to buy domains, I use them with some other criterias, but I still thing they are important metrics to consider, I am not saying just to buy a domain JUST based on that metrics for I use them as an evaluation parameter, otherwise how can you evaluate the quality of  each backlink source for example?

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Yes I am being seriious and yes I use them to buy domains, I use them with some other criterias, but I still thing they are important metrics to consider, I am not saying just to buy a domain JUST based on that metrics for I use them as an evaluation parameter, otherwise how can you evaluate the quality of  each backlink source for example?

 

Simple. You actually look at the backlink. A metric doesn't tell you if the link is good or not. You could have high metrics and the links still be shitty. 

 

Use them however you want. The point I was getting at is they are highly inaccurate. If you are using these metrics to judge if a link is good or bad, you are going to misjudge a lot of links. A site could have some great links that all show with low metrics because Moz/Majestic/Ahrefs doesn't have enough data to evaluate them properly.

 

Use them however you want. The point was that you have to understand that they are inaccurate and that with no PR updates as a guide, they are likely to only get more inaccurate over time...

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Simple. You actually look at the backlink. A metric doesn't tell you if the link is good or not. You could have high metrics and the links still be shitty. 

 

 

Simple. You actually look at the backlink. A metric doesn't tell you if the link is good or not. You could have high metrics and the links still be shitty. 

 

Yes and how fo you evaluate the "link juice" it has?

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Simple. You actually look at the backlink. A metric doesn't tell you if the link is good or not. You could have high metrics and the links still be shitty. 

 

 

Simple. You actually look at the backlink. A metric doesn't tell you if the link is good or not. You could have high metrics and the links still be shitty. 

 

Yes and how fo you evaluate the "link juice" it has?

 

 

By actually looking at the links and making judgments that way.

 

Metrics I just take with a grain of salt.

 

I can blast crappy profile links and make metrics look good.

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By actually looking at the links and making judgments that way.

 

Metrics I just take with a grain of salt.

 

I can blast crappy profile links and make metrics look good.

 

Of yourse you take the metrics with a grain of salt or should I say within the domain context, and yes you can send crappy profile links to increase the metrics, but you still need these metrics to have a real evaluation of the domain where the backlinks are comming from.

The point I am trying to make is that you said "they should be used as a very inaccurate guide", and I dont agree with it, If you using these metrics by itself to make absolute judgents that is a mistake (as it would have been to take the PR alone without verifying for example is the site had a real or fake PR) as it is to take any other value witouth the right context, you need to take them into account within the reality you are evaluating to make sense of the information you are getting, but saying they are very innacurate to me is really far fetched. These metrics are not just the best we have, but are the only ones we have.

Example: the Trust flow metric from Majestic SEO is very difficult to manipulate EVEN if you spam a domain (DA and PA are another beast) because it measures how many "citations/backlinks"  you have form the top 1 million websites in the world (what they consider the most respected sites)... so that metric alone to me is very important and interesting, but I take it with the context of the website (the market, because some adult websites are less likely to have backlinks from the top 1 million than lets say something on the entertainment market), but they are still a very useful guide.

 

Cheers

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Example: the Trust flow metric from Majestic SEO is very difficult to manipulate EVEN if you spam a domain (DA and PA are another beast) because it measures how many "citations/backlinks"  you have form the top 1 million websites in the world (what they consider the most respected sites)... so that metric alone to me is very important and interesting, but I take it with the context of the website (the market, because some adult websites are less likely to have backlinks from the top 1 million than lets say something on the entertainment market), but they are still a very useful guide.

 

 

 

And right there is just another reason it is inaccurate. It's not what Google considers the most respected sites. It's what Majestic considers to be the most respected.

 

There is nothing wrong with looking at any of these metrics, but I also would take them with a grain of salt.

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And right there is just another reason it is inaccurate. It's not what Google considers the most respected sites. It's what Majestic considers to be the most respected.

 

There is nothing wrong with looking at any of these metrics, but I also would take them with a grain of salt.

 

From that point of view NOTHING is like PageRank for obvious reasons, but you HAVE TO use these metrics because we dont have others and when you are starting to buy domains or to evaluate backlinks you have no experience so saying that you need to  have common sense or take them with a grain of salt is simply a way to express desdain for the metrics without any logical arguments and I think it is very dangerous to keep spreading this comments with no explanation because imagine that you are starting today your IM/SEO/Affiliate  carreer how do you evaluate a backlink? How do you evaluate a site? the newbies are having a rougher time because they cant apply "experience" at all.

 

The real value of these metrics is that it help us to make some sense of the authority of the sites on the web,  yes it is absolutely truth that they are not like PR, yes they may be a little (or a lot sometimes) off when you are comparing the ranks and the metrics, but there is NOTHING else to guide you.

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From that point of view NOTHING is like PageRank for obvious reasons, but you HAVE TO use these metrics because we dont have others and when you are starting to buy domains or to evaluate backlinks you have no experience so saying that you need to  have common sense or take them with a grain of salt is simply a way to express desdain for the metrics without any logical arguments and I think it is very dangerous to keep spreading this comments with no explanation because imagine that you are starting today your IM/SEO/Affiliate  carreer how do you evaluate a backlink? How do you evaluate a site? the newbies are having a rougher time because they cant apply "experience" at all.

 

The real value of these metrics is that it help us to make some sense of the authority of the sites on the web,  yes it is absolutely truth that they are not like PR, yes they may be a little (or a lot sometimes) off when you are comparing the ranks and the metrics, but there is NOTHING else to guide you.

 

 

That is perfect example of what I am getting at. The metrics are NOT ACCURATE. So if you tell newbies to go making decisions based on those metrics they are often times going to get shitty results and then sit around wondering why. 

 

This is where you are mistaken...

 

you HAVE TO use these metrics because we dont have others

 

 

We don't HAVE to do anything. We don't need to make decisions based on metrics. 

 

Even when PageRank was around, I did not make decisions based on PageRank alone because even it was inaccurate many times. The data they pushed out was often months behind, and it was just a snapshot. All it would take sometimes is the loss of one solid link to throw what you were seeing in the toolbar completely out of whack.

 

I give up. If you want to use the metrics, be my guest.

 

What I am saying is that if you are relying heavily on these metrics for anything important in your business, you are going to make a lot of misinformed decisions. 

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Ok, here's the secret to it all. I've spent thousands of hours developing this method so keep it to yourself.

 

Buy every domain that you think looks good according to any metric you choose. But only record and recant your success, and forget all about the failures.

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I'm seeing it more and more recently on how some of these metrics are way off the mark - especially DA/PA... At least with PR you could detect fake values but with third party ones its open season on manipulating the values... The other day I came across a joker who was selling PBN links with boasting how great the DA/PA and No. of backlinks on each site are... I checked this list of sites and basically every single one has been spammed to death! I guess its happening more and more now that PR is no longer updated with regards to link sellers now focusing on gaming 3rd party metrics etc...

 

In the same token I also came across one website which had a few good links from around a dozen different domains on pages which have reasonable PR i.e. DMOZ ... Zero spam links from what I could tell in total... I also checked the site on Wayback machine and you could tell it only ever had one owner with efforts to put together a great site... That said the third party metrics where way off - i.e. really low values for DA/PA, CF/TF ... regardless I decided to take a bet and got hold of the domain.. Will be interesting to see how it performs once resurrected...  

 

Just to add - I'm in process of changing my approach with much less reliance on metrics - as an experiment I'm seeing if I can identify great sites without any use of metrics i.e. check site on Way Back, check backlinks and those pages and run them and the root domains through keyword planner and also see how the providing sites responds in search.... I'm even tempted to see if I can derive my own metrics from the research ;-)

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Mike,

 

You're still using DA/TF etc. to screen the domains right? And then look at the backlinks? With PR so old, and these other metrics so unreliable, how do we now go about judging the backlinks?

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I use them for screening, yes. Sometimes I don't though. Depends on how much time I have really to search through domains.

 

For judging backlinks, I visit some of them manually. I look for websites that I recognize or that are popular. I'll look at the metrics at a glance. If I see a lot of links with high metrics, there is a better chance that they are not ALL wrong. If it is only a few links with decent metrics, I ignore what the metrics say and take a look at the links myself.

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